Building Authentic Business Relationships Through Podcasting

Today on the show, she is the CEO of Hardcast Media.

Molly Ruland is going to say something that you probably agree with, which is, hey, you know what?

There's a lot of power in podcast interviews.

We're all trying to get on each other's shows and Molly is like, oh, she agrees with that.

Podcast interviews, absolutely super powerful.

And we're all blowing it.

Hit it, ladies.

The school of Podcasting with Dave Jackson, podcasting 2005.

I am your award winning hall of fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson.

Thanking you so much for tuning in.

This is where I help you plan, launch, grow.

And if you want to monetize your show, my website is schoolofpodcasting.com use the coupon code listener when you sign up for either a monthly or yearly subscription and that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.

And today we are talking about leveraging and growing your network with your podcast.

Because it's amazing the things and the people and the opportunities that can come your way because of your podcast.

And speaking of, because of your podcast, before we get to Molly, we're going to get to my friend Ralph Estepp Jr.

From the Ask Ralph podcast.

That's@askralphpodcast.com and check out what happened to Ralph.

Now he's a financial guy, he's been an accountant for 30 plus years.

And man, if you need help with your business or personal finances, you know, you ask Ralph.

Hence Ask Ralph.

And somebody asked Ralph to do this.

Because of my podcast.

I got approached by Intuit because I'm one of their customers.

And they said, listen, you're one of the people that went from the desktop software to the cloud software.

We would like to understand what that impacted you, but we would like you to do that for our whole customer base.

So they came to me, they said, hey, here's an idea.

I said, fantastic.

So now I'm on their webinar team.

So they're going to pay me for my time to produce stuff, they're going to pay me for my time to deliver stuff, to understand their product better and to actually, it's really kind of a cool opportunity.

And that's what kind of led me to like, do I start doing more webinars?

Because in, you know, we have things in our field called continuing professional education.

Most of those things are virtual now.

And you're not going to an event because it's so costly to do it.

So there's a whole speaking, quote, webinar speaking circuit where they're paying people five, six hundred dollars an hour.

To, to do these two hour webinars to, to.

To do a topic and there might be a thousand people in the room or on, quote, online watching it.

So, yeah, because of my podcast, I'm getting noticed like that, and I think that's huge.

And if you weren't aware, the company Intuit is the makers of Quickbooks and Quicken, if they still make that, it's like they are the name in finance.

So congrats to my buddy ralph over@askralphpodcast.com Next up, a conversation with Molly Ruley.

I met her at the very first she podcast.

I was like one of four dudes.

And to their credit, they opened.

You know, it wasn't like, ugh, it's a man.

No, there was none of that going on, which was cool.

And I got to meet Molly and she's, I love her because she's super sarcastic and will tell you what she thinks.

So one of the ways that you can set apart your brand is to be authentic.

And I know right now authentic is kind of a buzz phrase, but what you get with Molly is what you get.

This is not an act.

And I love her for that.

And she will just tell you, yeah, that's not working.

I don't know why you're doing that.

That's not working.

And so that's why I love bringing her on the show.

Here's my conversation with Molly.

So it is the one, the only.

Don't be fooled by cheap imitations.

Molly Rulin, thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.

And one of the things that you kind of like, your little bubble, you're in many, many bubbles, but a lot of times you're helping businesses with their podcast.

Let me first get, do I have the strategy right?

Because I've always heard this.

It's like, okay, you're doing a podcast for your business.

You should be either be interviewing people who can hire you, or you should be interviewing people who know people who should hire you.

Is that typically kind of your strategy?

Yes.

All right, so then my question has always been on that, but what kind of content does that create for the audience?

Well, I think it's really important to stay inside of what you're passionate about and what you're knowledgeable about.

Right.

So, you know, on my podcast, I interview chief marketing officers and fractional chief marketing officers because I believe the best way to show people how you work is to show people how you work.

And if I want them to hire me to produce their podcast, the easiest thing for me to do is do great outreach, get them on my show, see how easy it is.

My signup form is on my website.

They inevitably look at the rest of my website.

They come on the podcast, I do a phenomenal introduction.

You know, we have a great conversation.

I don't talk about my business one time.

We're just talking about content marketing because that's what I'm passionate about, right?

And I steer them away from going down the rabbit hole of talking about themselves for the last 30 years because I can't keep up with that.

I don't know enough about like digital ad attribution to keep up, Tom.

You know what I mean?

Like, we gotta stay in the looking forward program.

So, you know, on the podcast we're talking about content marketing, what they've done in their business, what they've done for their clients, et cetera, et cetera.

In that conversation, I'm able to show that I'm knowledgeable.

Cause I've been doing it for 24 years, you know what I mean?

And I enjoy it.

I'm passionate about it.

So, you know, that expertise comes up naturally.

Typically what happens at the end, they're like, hey, you know, let's talk about your rates and services.

I was checking out your website.

I think I have a couple clients for you.

What I'm doing is just building relationships.

I, I don't sell them anything.

I don't have a pitch afterwards.

But now they're gonna think in their mind, man, you know, Molly did a great job.

Her outreach was good, the process was good, the show was good.

They sent me a mountain of assets.

A week later, the next time they're talking to somebody who wants to start a podcast, hopefully they're gonna think of me.

And that tends to be the result.

I think there's a difference in doing a podcast about leadership or resilience.

And then you have a company that sells coffee mugs.

Like, that's, that's not it.

That is a cheap.

Like, you're not, you know what I mean?

Like, too many people want to tell stories and talk to all kinds of people.

And that's great, but that's not really doing anything.

So all of the people that I've interviewed, I would love to do business with them, but I also genuinely enjoyed them.

I enjoyed the conversation, I was genuinely curious about them.

And I got really phenomenal people on the show who were a lot of fun to work with.

And it's, you know, of course, turned into some business.

But more importantly, in a season, I formed 22 new relationships with exactly the kind of people that I want to spend time with.

Because marketers on LinkedIn are way more interesting than the rest, than a lot of other people.

You know what I mean?

So it's all about relationship building.

So it's not about closing a deal on, on the interview at all.

I just want people to think podcast Molly got it.

So that's because that's really, I think one of the biggest benefits of podcasting, it's the relationships.

And so you said you don't pitch them.

I know you mentioned there's some things on your website, the podcast is there.

And again, that's hardcastmedia.com and what else do you have there that they can just accidentally bump into to have them go, oh, wow, she really knows what she's doing.

Well, we're full service podcast everything agency, you know, so we do podcast production, we do outreach for you on LinkedIn to identify the ideal client profile.

We do guest management, we do guest preparation, we do production, we do paid advertising to make sure you get the data downloads that you're looking for.

We do guaranteed downloads.

And then we also do podcast booking where we book our clients on other people's podcasts.

So we're really a one stop shop for all things branded podcasts.

You know, our target audience is people who are business owners, entrepreneurs, small to mid sized companies who understand the power of a podcast.

I'm not really out here cold pitching.

So the, so the people that are like, how do I start a podcast with no money?

Or how do I do this without a micro.

That's not, that's not my audience at all.

I'm looking for companies with marketing teams that understand the value of a podcast.

Ideally, they've tried it before and they see how hard it is and they go, okay, let's outsource this.

And so it's, it's a, it's an easier climb.

Yeah.

And you mentioned you, you book other people on shows.

How do you figure out what shows to book people on?

Because I know everybody thinks, oh, I just need to find the biggest shows on the planet and that's all I need to do.

How do you go about like, what's the criteria for, you know, a client for sure?

So we have a pretty hefty onboarding process and I ask a lot of questions because I think people are multifaceted.

So, like, even if you own a podcast company and you want to talk about podcasting, you're probably also a husband or a father or a dog owner or a marathon runner.

Or a sober.

Or there's other elements to your personality.

You know, you might have leadership, you might have other things.

So it's really kind of identifying.

You know, it's taking, you know, 20 plus years of marketing to really understand, well, wait a minute.

What.

What is the goal, first of all, right, like, are you just trying to get visibility?

Are you just looking for clips for thought leadership?

Are you trying to form relationships?

You know, what does success look like?

And then we book people accordingly.

But I'm really happy on the relationship side of it.

I, you know, I really emphasize.

I say, whether it's somebody coming on your podcast or you're going on there, that's a relationship, and, like, value it and take it seriously.

Like, don't be at Whole Foods or the dentist.

Like, that happened one time.

The guy was like, hold on.

I got.

And we were like, is this really happening right now?

He is actually at the dentist.

I felt.

I swear to God, I was like this in 20 years of, like, AV.

I'm like, this is a new one.

Like, okay, cool, man.

So understanding having being on somebody else's podcast, like, nurture that relationship just as much as you would nurture somebody coming on your podcast.

Because that podcast host has talked to a bunch of people, probably hundreds of people in the same sphere as you, and could make introductions and could refer you, or they might just be your new homie at the next podcast convention, because that's how this industry works.

It's super teeny tiny, and we're all, you know, friends or not friends, but, like, it's a small world.

And so it's always about relationships.

The interview is over, and I am somewhat horrible at this.

I'm either hit or miss.

And I remember once I interviewed Tom Webster and the episode came out and I was kind of popping around social, and here I had even told Tom that his episode was out, and he had already retweeted it.

And I'm like, oh, that looks bad when the guest is promoting it before you are.

And so I heard you on another interview, and you kind of said, this is really one of the most important things.

And yet it's also one of the things that people just drop the ball.

Obviously, we need to let the guest know, hey, the episode's, you know, out, but what else do we need to do in that step?

And then moving forward, I mean, just.

Being a decent human.

Hey, thanks for having me on your show last week.

You know, I really appreciate it.

Or, thanks for coming on my show last week.

And really, if you're really intentional with your podcast, then you should have some sort of a cta.

And that doesn't have to be like, on a marketing, like, get your.

Get them to do something for you.

But like, if you have a podcast about kids with autism or something, then, like, follow up.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Would you mind leaving a review on my book on Amazon?

Or would you just nurture the relationship?

I think so often people are like, make audio grams and post a million times and do all this stuff, and then it feels so overwhelming that you don't do any of it.

And it's like, listen, if you do, that's great.

But the relationship is not on social media.

The relationship is in that person's email.

Right.

And it's taking a few moments just to say, hey, thank you for that time.

And, you know, in my case, I always tell my clients, it's like, hey, thanks.

Thanks for coming on the show last week.

Would you mind making that introduction?

Would you mind, you know, can I get 20 minutes of your time?

Would you consider joining our board of directors?

You know, whatever it is.

Right.

But nurturing that, or, hey, thanks for coming on the show.

I want before, you know, thank you for your time.

By the way, I made those introductions that we talked about for you on the phone.

You know, it's a person, it's a relationship.

It's a warm lead, not a podcast episode.

And that's the difference.

And so it's not about selling them.

It's just about thinking.

Instead of thinking as, like, content, content, content.

It's like, you know, sometimes people train people to ignore them.

You put out too much content haphazardly, without intention.

It's not great.

You're training people to ignore your content.

So reps is not always the answer, contrary to what everybody will tell you.

Yeah, just more content.

And I'm like, think about that.

You know, you get a.

I don't know, a donut, and it's awful.

It's like, this isn't.

Are you sure this is a donut?

And people's answer is, well, here's another one, and I'll give you another one tomorrow.

Yeah, so that's not good.

Well, I know, especially people that are somewhat introverted at the end of an interview to say, hey, do you know somebody else who would be a good guest for the show?

Just makes them wet their pants because a.

In their head, they're like, well, what if that person thinks it's not a good interview?

Like, what if they don't want to?

You Know what I mean?

They're just freaking out about it.

So what does that process look like for you?

Like, how do you bring that up if you're looking for somebody to, you know, refer other guests or, you know, resources or things like that?

To be honest, I don't ever ask for anything.

I just create an abundance of good stuff.

You know, it's a highly produced show.

Like I said, best way to show people how you work is to show em how you work.

I'm not really looking for anything from them.

I just want them to understand that if they decide to work with me or refer anybody to me, they know exactly what it's gonna be like for that client because they just experienced it themselves.

For me, I'm more of a soft seller.

And I find that those relationships come organically because I know in my business, I've got a vast majority of my clients from public speaking.

I get in front of people.

Some people leave the room and go home and pray for me.

And other people love the hell out of me.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm cool with that.

You know, my plan D is stand up comedy.

And I'll offend everyone, you know, equally, I promise you.

But I always find my people that way are like, okay, she's clearly been doing this a long time.

I like the way she talks.

She makes me laugh a little bit.

I can't get away with saying that stuff in my corporate job.

Let's hire her, you know, and that's how I got my stuff.

So I figured, well, let me take that to my own podcast and take my own medicine.

I've been selling this to my clients for six years.

And then I thought, well, what the heck are you doing?

You don't even, you know, you're not even taking your own medicine and doing your own podcast, right?

So for me, it was never about, can I get another meeting?

But nine times out of 10, they would say, when I hit stop, hey, I was checking out your website.

Cause what I do is I invite people to the podcast as an invite page on my website.

It's a beautifully designed landing page that's not available on the menu.

You have to be sent the link.

And it's like, all right, let's do this.

Here's the information.

Book yourself.

We use microphones.

Here's the.

Give us the review on itunes.

You know, all the jazz.

So they fill out that thing and it's like, awesome, See you soon.

They're like, that was super easy.

It's on their calendar now.

Inevitably they're going to look at the rest of my website while they're there.

I'm not asking them to do that.

I'm not talking about it.

And so it's really just about understanding your product, understanding the value it has and who would really appreciate it.

And then you don't have to sell your services because everybody's looking for good vendors.

Fractional people, especially fractional marketing people, are looking for good vendors because they have multiple clients, right?

They want to be the hero.

They want to show up and go, oh, I got a great company, Hardcast Media, top notch.

I've seen them in action.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

And then you could always have, when they fill out the form, like the, the follow up email that says, hey, we got your form, you know, again, just has a link to your website.

So in the event they didn't look at your website, they might go, you know, what, what, what, what are they all about?

It doesn't have to be this giant, you know, beat them over the head, you know, give me five names now kind of, right?

And you know, I think a lot of times people are just looking for anybody on their website, but I think you gotta be intentional.

And I mean, I, I did a case study on it to see the numbers and I sent out 500 cold messages on LinkedIn being the smartest cause that's my favorite brand of humor, you know, to get people's attention.

Only targeted chief marketing officers and fractional chief marketing officers as soon as, once they read the thing and accepted it.

Now we're connected.

Okay, so off the top, I've sent it to 500 people, 250 people.

Of those, 50% opened it and now I have 250 fractionals and CMOs on my LinkedIn feed, right from that 250, 22 of them self selected, booked, followed the link, booked themselves and would respond.

See you on the 17th.

I mean, we're talking zero questions because this thing is laid out really, really well, right?

And from that I closed about $60,000 with the deals and now I'm on round two of referrals from those because everybody is super stoked with how easy it is and now they're referring other people, so it can work.

And I did that with 22 episodes.

I'm not, I haven't recorded one in a couple months because I filled my pipeline and I'm ready to go.

I'm not trying to be a podcaster.

So that is, I think, essentially the difference.

Are you creating a podcast for your business or are you trying to be a podcaster?

Yeah, because you're not worried about finding ads for your show.

You know what I mean?

When you're filling your pipeline, you're like, yeah, I'm getting paid already.

So consequently, you end up with a better show because it's not interrupted every 10 minutes for a mattress ad and still positions you as an authority.

It grows your network.

And, oh, by the way, if you ever need any help with any of the marketing and you're tired of trying to put together a podcast, there's my.

Website, you know, and I enjoy the conversations.

Cause we're talking about content marketing.

I've been doing it a long time.

I love this stuff.

I'm into it.

I'm not faking the funk.

Talking about telling me about your origin story or your, you know, the pain and suffering you've endured.

Like, listen, Tom Bilyeu did that four years ago.

He's not doing it so good no more.

But whatever, that's a different conversation.

But, like, that, those stories have already been told.

Like, I just want to talk about content marketing.

And what are you doing in this current market with content marketing for your business?

Because I think at the end of the day, a podcast is like a dinner plate.

And the steak is always going to be the relationship.

The potatoes is always going to be the SEO, which is always looked over in this industry.

And then the vegetables, because I'm Irish, potatoes always come first.

The vegetables is the social proof, you know what I mean?

Like, that's the.

That's the last layer of the thing.

But the relationship is the relationship, you know, and that's where all the value comes in.

And my audience is now hearing how these people.

Like, I interviewed a guy, Stephen Tejimulia, who was given 10 million by Hewlett Packard, I think, like, 10 years ago to work on AI.

That guy was super interesting and insanely humble, and you would never.

You know what I mean?

I really enjoyed that conversation.

And I got to ask him, what do you think people are going to do next in content marketing?

So it does have value for my audience because I'm not sitting there talking to him about what he did for Packard 10 years ago.

I'm like, wow, that's cool.

That validates you to have a real opinion in this conversation for my listeners.

So now I'd like to know, what are you guys doing moving forward?

So I feel like it is valuable for everybody.

I have been over the origin story, like five years ago, because I just don't care.

I always Told people, I'm like, you're introducing me to a stranger.

And unless they have a really cool origin story, but everybody's like, no, no.

When you hear their origin story, then you can relate to them.

And I'm like, I relate to them because you brought them on your show and I trust you to bring on people who are going to deliver value.

I don't need to sit through 30 minutes of, you know, oh, I was, you know, I had to walk uphill both ways to school and well, you mentioned that one of the things people are dropping the ball on is SEO.

So what should we be doing that we're not?

The first thing people can do is retrain their AI to stop talking like podcast lingo and train your agent or your special instructions or whatever it.

Like I use team GPT so you know, you can put product knowledge and definite language in there.

Stop using rocket ships emojis, stop saying things like new podcast alert tunein.

Stop saying maven maestro deep dive delve.

Stop doing all that immediately and tell your AI to focus on keywords, okay?

Because YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world and you know what I mean?

So like if you and you're going to put these metadata and podcast episodes on your website, then make sure there's as many keywords as possible.

So instead of like, magnificent work, doing spectacular transformations through tremendous marketing, say like data driven results in a women owned business and a competitive digital transformation space, like, those are the things you should have in your show notes.

Not like get rid of all the adjectives, get rid of all the complimentary stuff and learn the Aida framework.

The Aida framework is a I D, A.

Attention, interest, desire, action.

Do you hate your husband?

I'm interested.

I'm interested.

You could get rid of them really quickly in three easy steps.

You know, desire.

You could live a life husband free too.

Action.

Click here to get rid of your husband.

It's the oldest framing marketing framework in the world.

We've been sold it for millions of years.

Do you have a headache?

Are you lonely?

Do you hate the world right now?

Like, yes, yes, yes.

Well, you, here's a solution.

Here's the life you could have and here's how you get it.

Tell your AI to start using the ADA framework so your episodes open with what if you could leave your corporate job and start a new side hustle and make just as much money?

Way more compelling than new episode alert.

You know, rocket ship, rocket ship, you.

Know, yes, I love the rocket ship emoji because I'm with you.

I see it all the time like too.

Is this written by AI by any chance?

Right, but it's also more value add for your client, for, you know, and for your listener and for your YouTube content and your blog content.

Because it's just an opportunity to cram a bunch of keywords about what you do and your company and backlinks onto your own website.

Every single episode is a blog post with metadata and SEO content on it, period.

Like, cram it, cram it, cram it.

So, you know, and, and no disrespect to the like, podcast page it play, you know, like websites and stuff, I always encourage my clients to keep it theirs just for the SEO and to not embed the players and not embed those things because then you lose that on page SEO value, you know?

Oh.

So I always say your show notes should be almost a blog post.

And then put not.

Not the stupid, like what I call a jukebox, where I'm like, I'm just gonna have one page called podpage or pod, you know, and then there's six episodes on it.

I'm like, there's no zero, like almost negative SEO for them.

Exactly.

But if you put a player on the blog post and people click on it, they might stay on the website longer, which will actually boost your SEO.

So that's the bonus of that.

Mix the blog with a player and I think you're in better shape.

Now, you also obviously have clients that you book on other shows.

What's your advice to them for how to be a good guest?

Get a microphone, get head, get earbuds.

Or, you know, you don't have to wear cans if you're not editing, but you need to take your audio out of the room and get a mic.

Shure just came out.

I don't know if you saw it at PodFest.

That $150 gaming mic, that's, I'm sure, basically the same hardware as the MV7.

And it comes with a stand.

150 bucks you're in there.

Your earbuds from the airplane ideal.

They don't have microphones on them.

Perfect things to plug into.

You know what I mean?

Free too.

Free 99.

Can't beat that.

But do a little research.

Prepare, you know, have something to talk about.

And then on your end, like, be really clear.

What is your value proposition?

What is your cta?

When you go on podcast, you should be repeating yourself over and over and over and over again.

You should really dial down what it is you want to say and how you're saying it and then duplicate it a bunch of times, and you'll feel ridiculous, but you're talking to different audiences every time.

And make sure you're sending them someplace easy.

Mine is heartcastmedia.com friends because we're friends.

You know what I'm saying?

Everybody can remember that.

You can go there, book a meeting with me.

A lot easier than saying, find me on LinkedIn and find me on Instagram and find me and art, you know, with you.

You said, look, as the podcast host, I'm looking for chief marketing officers.

How do you figure out the criteria?

Because podcasts are kind of weird, because some of them are like, you know, they say they're about leadership or like, they're kind of vague.

So how do you figure out what shows to go on and does it?

If you find the perfect show and they're on episode four, is that something you still do?

So how do you.

You figure out what shows to go on?

Yeah, so there's definitely some criteria.

So in.

In my former life, I.

I booked artists on stages all over the country, and so I.

I kind of woke up two years ago and thought I should be doing this.

In the podcast space, there's bare minimums, right?

I don't book people on anything under a thousand downloads an episode for the most part, because they're paying us to do it.

You know what I mean?

They could get the lower ring shows themselves.

Then, you know, we don't do anything that has less than, like, 30 episodes typically.

Because I fully understand Pod flash.

It ain't even a fade no more.

It's a flash.

It's like the green flash at sunset.

But anyway, there's definitely criteria.

I do a lot of research.

There's been a new dawning of AI and podcast booking agencies and an overusage of VAs.

And so it happens to me all the time.

I've talked about AI a handful of times on my podcast, and now every jabroni in town who wants to talk about AI is pitching me because they think I have a pitching pod, an AI podcast, because they used AI to search the database.

And they're like, oh, homegirl over there said AI however many times this must be, and it's not.

It's not a podcast about AI.

I don't want to talk about AI at all.

I've just had some people who own AI companies on my podcast, and I was talking about their origin story, but the AI led.

Led them down the wrong path and thinking that.

So while we leverage some of that it's a lot of research and admin and very laborious digging and searching and researching and borderline stalking and then sending emails like a man, like six or seven times.

Because men will just email you and do it until you're like, leave me alone.

But women, like, on the second one, they're like, I'm annoying.

This is too much.

So I just, like, we just put on our man hats and we just email until they tell us to go away, you know, but it's not fun.

So how do you figure out who has a thousand downloads an episode?

Because most people don't share that kind of info.

No.

And most of it was wrong.

And of course, when Apple changed their whole shindig last year was a real wake up call.

I was like, what happened to all the stats for that podcast?

But I use a database called Refonic, which is really helpful.

And if you pay for the extra whatever, you get extra services and can see more stuff now.

It, it, you know, it's great.

But 90% of the email addresses on that database are wrong.

So, like, it'll give you information about the podcast, but it doesn't necessarily give you a back door to them because, you know, when you set up a podcast, usually you use some random old email that you never check again.

And that's the case with the majority of podcasts.

Like, I know that podcast@npr.com is not being checked.

You know, I'm pretty, pretty sure about that.

But it's a great place to look at stats, but it's not necessarily.

And it has a great kind of CRM tool, but it's not, it's not you.

You have to do a lot.

It doesn't just stop.

Just because you have an email address for a podcast doesn't mean they're gonna look.

You know, I'm being told that podcasts that have 5,000 downloads an episode are getting over a hundred pitches a day right now.

Wow.

Yeah, that's about right.

I mean, I, I'm just amazed at how bad they are.

Well, the one thing else I wanted to ask about when it comes to networking, you explain how this is how you.

You hand off.

Hey, the.

The episode's out.

Thanks so much.

Blah, blah, blah.

Is that the end, or do you follow up in like a month or two just to go like, hey, howdy, what's up?

Or is that the end of it?

I will then take all the assets we've made for that episode and just slowly post them.

Oh, you know, a couple weeks ago, I was sitting down with so and so and tag them and I just stay relevant.

But a lot of times what's happened is cause they were on my show, I reached out to them.

So we've.

We're now connected on LinkedIn.

I see their content, they see mine.

So what happens is that the relationship doesn't really end there whether I tag them and stuff or not.

Cause stuff.

One thing that I really realized was I drastically improved my LinkedIn by adding 500 marketing people to it, you know what I mean?

Over a couple different sessions.

Because I'm over this thought leadership stuff.

Let me see your product packaging.

Let's talk about the fonts you use.

I'm way more interested in that at this point, you know what I mean?

So it's improved my feed and then of course I'm commenting on their stuff because it's relevant to what I do and I care about it.

Yeah.

I interviewed one guy from Good Salt Life.

They're a cleaning company that uses like all organic naturals.

I just really like the guy.

Like, if I was in his state, I would hit him up and he'd probably invite me over to have dinner with his family.

He's never gonna hire me, but like, I just, I enjoyed it.

Totally worth the time invested with that guy.

I'd do it again.

We might do a follow up.

Well, I would much rather talk to people that I actually like.

I know you have a podcast called Camp Content.

Tell us a little bit about it.

It's like you go to summer camp and we're the camp counselors.

And then like, then when people come on, there are guest camp counselors and we turn them into Cartoo.

It's a lot of fun.

But here's the difference too.

My opening line is, Andy Warhol promised us 15 minutes of fame, but it hasn't happened.

So I'm gonna need you to come on my podcast.

And so every good marketer would message me back and go, all right, that was clever.

What you got?

You know what I mean?

Like, there you go, you know, and so that's me.

That's my personality, you know what I mean?

That's who I am.

I'm a, I'm a joker, you know what I mean?

I like to have fun with my clients.

I like, work really hard for them and I want to see them win.

But we joke around and we have a good time together.

And so my opening line was indicative of that.

So who responded?

Savvy marketers that understood what I was doing or were entertained by it.

So who came on My show, a bunch of interesting smart ass people.

I mean, that's it.

You attract the people that are like you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I want to work with people like that because they're just easier to deal with and they tee their clients up for me and we speak the same language and it's great.

And so it's like, you know, build the pipeline you want, you know, through your podcast, through everything about it, the outreach, the look of it.

There you go.

It's a nice break on LinkedIn from all the serious thought, leadership, grandstanding, I'm so important stuff.

And I just want to show people our marketing chops.

I want them to see our production chops and like, how ridiculous or serious.

We can make your podcast, we can turn you into cartoons, or we can produce a top 10 global podcast about China and Iran.

Like, what you want?

We got it all, you know.

All right, well, Molly, thank you so much, everyone.

Check out heartcastmedia.com and thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.

It was a great time.

Wait, I gotta play that again.

Anybody else think that transition music sounds like a Tom Petty song or something like that?

Hold on, let me play that again.

Tom Petty gonna sing a song for you.

Tom Petty.

Yeah.

Okay, enough of that.

Here are a couple things that stood out.

What's your goal?

What's the goal?

Going on somebody's show.

And I know it's like, well, to get in front of their audience, but then do your prep.

Maybe, just maybe, because we talked about newsletters last week with Paul and, you know, maybe have a special gift for them.

Not one lead magnet fits everybody.

I know takes more work.

But if you made a special lead magnet for that audience and then sent them to your website, then you could see, hey, wow, when I was on show one, I got two people on my email list.

When I was on show two, I got 50.

Okay, I know whose show I want to come back on, so keep that.

Because Molly got so many leads, she had to shut down the podcast.

That's a good problem to have.

And then of course, the Aida format, the A of course stands for attention.

So grab their attention.

The I, you know, what are the key benefits?

Keep their interest.

That's the I, the desire you want to build that emotional engagement and make them want either your product, your service, or your podcast.

And then the action.

I hear so many people just drop the ball on the action.

They'll do an interview show.

And so, like right now I can say, hey, everything we talked about with Molly, schoolofpodcasting.com 975 Notice I'm reinforcing my brand and I'm making it easy to remember.

Schoolofpodcasting.com 975 and then.

Or they'll just mention the guest website, you know, heartcast media.

But in the end, they forget the call to action for them.

And don't forget this.

It's your show.

That's why I'm doing this summary right now.

I'm ever so politely going, molly was great.

We learned a lot.

It's my show.

The other thing I think we can all take away from Molly is Molly is Molly.

And what I mean by that is she's.

She's unique.

She's a character.

She says what's on her mind and either like her or there's the door.

And so I love the fact that she's attracting people like her in her space of content marketing, content creation.

And if you like Molly, you want to work with her because she sounds like fun.

And if you're like, I don't know, her attitude and she's just, you know, okay, well, then you're not her target audience.

And there's a great book called Listenable by Burt Weiss, and he talks about, really content creation comes down to the content.

So if that's awful, it's not going to work.

But you can have great content.

But if you have bad delivery, that's not going to work either.

And so Molly delivers her stuff the way she delivers her stuff, and you either like it or you don't.

And if you don't, there's the door.

And you have to be okay with that, that not everybody is going to like you.

But Molly and I are both sarcastic.

We like to have fun.

And so when I saw her at PodFest and then we followed up later, I'm like, ah, you need to come on the show.

Because she's like, oh, yeah.

People are totally dropping the ball.

I'm like, that's it.

We got a lesson to learn.

Come on over and let's chat.

But I will have everything out@schoolofpodcasting.com 975 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The school of podcasting.

All right, time to throw myself under the bus.

And what this is, I always say, edit your show.

Yes, you want to make your.

Your guests sound good.

But in my case, I want to make me sound good.

Because there are many times I open up a question before my brain is figured out what I'm going to ask.

And so what we're going to hear is a little clip of Molly, which is the end of her previous answer, and then me trying to ask a question.

And I'm going to interrupt this so you can hear this and where I.

Mess up, you know.

Now, how do you.

I can't remember if I asked you this or not, but if it's a repeat.

Okay, there's the wind up.

Here's the pitch.

Like with you, you said, look, as the podcast host, I'm looking for chief marketing officers.

What's what?

How do you.

Okay, we almost had a question there.

What's, what's?

And then we switched to how.

What's what?

How do you figure out the criteria?

Because podcasts are kind of weird.

Because some of them are like, okay, so here I actually asked a question.

What's the criteria?

Shut up.

It's not that hard of a question to understand.

But, no, I got to give you a bunch of background first.

How do you figure out the criteria?

Because podcasts are kind of weird because some of them are like, you know, they say they're about leadership or, like, they're kind of vague.

So how do you figure out what shows to go on and does it.

Oh, my.

A question.

Just shut up.

How do you figure out how to go on a show?

But no, we're not done.

So how do you figure out what shows to go on and does it?

If you find the perfect show and they're on episode four, is that something you still do?

So how do you.

You figure out what shows to go on?

Okay, so I honestly don't know what I left in there, but right now, listening to this, I would just start it off here.

So how do you figure out what shows to go on?

Yeah, so there's definitely some criteria.

And so, Dave, why are you throwing yourself under the bus?

Because you may be the person that's thinking about starting a podcast and going, I'm afraid I'll sound stupid.

You will only sound stupid if you leave the stupid stuff in.

And some days I don't have a lot of stupid stuff.

And some days, like that particular question, I do.

And there are going to be those people that say, oh, leave it in.

That's the way people talk.

And that's fine.

It's your show.

You can choose that.

When I hear that it's nails on a chalkboard, I'm like, ugh, what are you doing?

Plus, I saved you about 34 seconds of me trying to figure out what the heck I'm trying to ask.

If I take those seconds that I saved you.

And multiply them by the number of people that listen to this show in the 60 plus countries.

I just saved the world a lot of time and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

And you know, you edit the way.

You edit, I'll edit the way.

But I'm just for the person that's like, I'm afraid I'm gonna sound stupid if you leave it in.

Sure.

I always say a podcast is a conversation.

And today we heard a really fun conversation with Molly with the boring parts removed.

Because I don't want to be boring.

It's generally a kind of a mantra at the school of podcasting, like, how do I grow my show?

Don't be boring.

That's really kind of what it boils down to.

Here's what Steve Martin said.

He was on the Howard Stern show about the importance of editing.

I was interviewed for three days to talk.

So it's all just gibberish until they organize it.

But the end result of that, the whole purpose of it was to teach people how to edit.

Edit, yes.

If you need help with that, if you need help with recording, promotion, anything in podcasting, there's one place to go.

Schoolofpodcasting.com use the coupon code listener.

That's L I S T E N E R.

When you sign up for either a monthly or yearly subscription in the course, that is worry free with a 30 day money back guarantee.

I'm Dave Jackson.

I help podcasters.

It's what I do.

Thanks so much for tuning in.

Until next week.

Take care.

God bless.

Class is dismissed.

Definitely go out to schoolofpodcasting.com 974 is that the episode?

Let's find out together.

And welcome to the blooper reel.

Because Dave didn't do his job.

Nope.

It's 975.

Well, there you go.

Time to throw this one in the blunder bin.

So if you're worried, what is up with the word so?

Ugh.

Every sentence begins with so.

She's a good girl, loves, mama, lives, who are sis.

And then he has the whole I don't understand the world today, like somebody strangling him.

I understand.

Right.

And then.

Yeah, and then you got the goal and I'm free.

And then he turns into Axl Rose.

Oh, yeah, free.

Oh.

Oh, yeah.

I get up around seven.

Stay out of bed around nine.

Why don't.

Okay, never mind Axl Rose and Tom Petty.

Actually, if you.

I'll put a link in the show notes.

I'll find it.

Nothing more like, wow.

One of these things doesn't belong here.

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers with Axl Rose on MTV with Axl Rose coming in and doing the and I'm free kind of thing.

And he's doing the whole Axl dance.

I'll put a link in the show notes.

Thanks for listening this far.

I appreciate you.

I really, really, really do.